Why are men intimidated by ______ women?

30 06 2010

This is a rewrite from almost a year ago.

Men are not intimidated by strong, powerful, fat, funny, short, tall, bald, shockingly promiscuous, ugly, bitchy, stupid, smart, or mean women. Very often on OKCupid, I see women asking if men are intimidated by [adjective] women, because they simply don’t want to believe that they’re only attractive enough to receive what little attention from men they get. Here, intimidation can be seen as a euphemism for “not attracted to” when the only women that men are routinely intimidated by are the ones that are the most physically attractive, women whose mere sight induces physiological changes in the opposite sex – rise in pulse, blood pressure, hormonal balance, and whatnot. Very few women are intimidating as such.

If there’s any reality to these women’s perspectives, men might not want to get involved with women of higher status. I don’t want to date a woman who earns a lot more money than I do because I know she won’t look up to me. Call this insecurity or whatever, but I just know it won’t work. I also don’t want to date a cop, a lawyer, or anyone with significant political power. There may be something to the smart thing for some men, but not for me. It’s very rare for me to meet anyone who seems smarter to me than I think I am, so I don’t really know. With girls of interest, this has happened exactly once, and I loved it. Very exciting.

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Internet Mind-readers and the Fragile Fat Girl Ego

20 02 2010

It is as though it is my never-ending quest to make fat girls cry. Once again, I’ve found something to talk about on OkCupid’s forums. The other day, someone started a thread on titled “Fat people need their own site“, complaining that OkC shows him “matches” that he has no interest in, fat girls. On one level, I can sympathyze here as I’ve seen this myself. The site will try to introduce users to members they might be interested in based on their very interesting (but mostly nonsense)  matchmaking pseudo-science. However, dealbreakers such as being fat are completely ignored. On the other hand, there are two problems with the site for fat people. First, fat people don’t necessarily need to be paired up with other fat people. Second, there already is such a thing.

Being insensitive to the heavyset crowd doesn’t go over well. Predictably:

emote_control: Men who aren’t interested in fat women don’t complain about them.  They just look for women they’re interested in.  Men who complain about fat women are trying to overcompensate for the shame they feel at being attracted to fat women. They make all sorts of noise so that nobody will suspect they’re all about buttering rolls.  It’s tragic, really.  They should be out and proud about their fat girl love.  Otherwise they’re living a lie, and will wallow in misery.

First, I don’t like that he puts two spaces after each period, even though that’s what I was taught to do in elementary school on an Apple IIe. Second, this is complete nonsense. I have seen this kind of illogic before, but I don’t quite know how to address it. You may have heard that men who complain about homosexuals are themselves secretly gay. You may believe it. In many cases, it may well be true, but you must understand that you cannot logically conclude that someone has a secret love for anything simply because they claim to dislike it publicly. It seems to make sense regarding homosexuality as there can are high personal and social costs to accepting and declaring one’s homosexuality, and we understand the concept of protesting too much.

I hate mushrooms. I’m serious. I mean, I don’t just hate eating mushrooms. I hate seeing them or smelling them. I don’t like knowing that other people eat them. If you have just concluded that I secretly love mushrooms, I hate you too. Discerning someone’s secrets comes from the fairly non-scientific but very real and useful art of reading people, as in poker. I do not take anyone seriously who presumes to be able to employ this skill to any great effect through the internet, particularly on strangers. If police detectives suspect you may be involved in a serious crime, they will come to you or take you in and interrogate you in person. They will not e-mail you a list of questions. It is difficult enough to detect sarcasm. I assume, when I see people reading minds on the internet, that they’re projecting, but I don’t make that claim. I think this is a logical fallacy that needs a name. Someone help me.

Back to the thread…

After that, the first sympathetic reply mentioned how body type is not selectable as a match criterion, while a slew of other things are, such as zodiac sign. I must say that is rather curious. Here are all the things you can filter your search with:

  • Any combination of gender and sexual orientation (such as girls who like guys or bi girls only)
  • Minimum and Maximum age
  • Limit to within 25/50/100/250/500 miles of your zip code or any other zip code
  • How long ago they were last online
  • Exclude profiles without photos
  • Show only those who are single
  • Join Date
  • Keywords
  • Ethnicity
  • Height
  • What someone is looking for (such as long-term relationships, casual sex, etc.)
  • Smoking
  • Drinking
  • Drug Use
  • Religion
  • Zodiac Sign
  • Education
  • Job Income
  • Pets
  • Language

So, there’s all of that, but no way to exclude those who are too fat or too skinny. Why might this be?

Another mangina jumped and disagreed with emote_control above, introducing his own theory to explain why men complain about fat girls.

carlosisgod: Nah, it’s more along the lines of them being petty, spineless dicks who are looking for an easy scapegoat to pick on cause they’re overcompensating about how hopelessly mediocre and boring they really are in life.  Oh my gosh, look at the brave man picking on overweight people.  What a fucking hero.

I don’t know that this really needs to be replied to. Understand that nobody’s really said anything all that mean about fat people. Not yet anyway. Not until I had to go ahead and say this:

[…] I also think it’s valid to complain about the extremely fat people who take up more space than a human ever should.  They gross me the fuck out, not just with how they look but also they’re public eating habits.

While I’m complaining, I’d like to complain about how every time a TV news show decides that obesity is news they show all these shots of fat people walking around from the neck down. I don’t want to see that shit. And then they almost never have any useful information for fat people who want to lose weight.

[…]

You’re not an “extremely fat person.” I’m talking about the tubs of goo who ride the scooters at Walmart when they’re buying their cookies and ice cream, people who wear sweatpants because that’s all they have that fits.

You might not see much of that, but I do and I can’t stand it.

In hind sight, none of this really needed to be said. It wasn’t even all that relevant here, but I really do feel this way and it just came out. Americans disgust me. It bothers me that so many people here are so fat. Does it make you a bad person? Not really, I suppose, but if I see your fat thighs because you’re wearing sweatshorts at a sit-down restaurant as you stuff your face with shit you don’t need to be eating, I’m going to be offended. If I see another fat fuck buying junk-food with food stamps, it will make me angry. My complaint about fat people taking up too much space refers specifically to taking up too much highly demanded space. If you are a woman over 300 lbs, it will bother me to see you in a crowded bar or club. Wherever you go, you’re in the fucking way, and I don’t see how you or anyone else benefits from your being in such a place. Fat guys who are in the way bother me too, but not much more than all guys who are in the way bother me. In the context of the thread, I suppose my words were uncalled for. Maybe I really do want to make fat girls cry. Or maybe I’m just angry and like to rant.

Thankfully, the fat people’s savior decided to set me straight.

carlosisgodOh no, you’re so fucking oppressed.  What a sob story.  Who the heck are you to judge and dehumanize other people? What have you contributed to the human race?  Jack-shit.  You’re just another lazy shithead with an over-inflated sense of entitlement who’s got a chip on his shoulder cause his Daddy didn’t buy him the car he wanted when he turned sweet sixteen.  I know people who are obese who have accomplished more and contributed more to humanity in ten years than 99% of the people out there will ever accomplish or contribute in their entire fucking lives. The difference between them and you, is they wouldn’t begrudge you a damn thing.   You’re an imbecile and a whiner and an ingrate.  You got every advantage a person could have.  You’re born in the richest country,  you obviously got money and time cause you’re on the internet and look at you.   Raging against people who have weight problems.  Oh, my god.   What a fucking hero.  You’re a black hole, you suck so hard, that even with all the potential in the world, you’re still nothing. There are millions of people who would die to get a chance to live your life and have your opportunities,  and all you can do is squander it, whining about people you don’t know from fucking atom, who are already facing legitimate problems of their own.  And you talk about them being a waste of space?  Take a good long look in the mirror before you judge other people you gutless coward.

This is amazing. I’m going to save it forever. I’ve never had anyone put this much effort into hating me on the internet. I don’t know how complaining about something in my life constitutes cries of oppression, but implying so is a great way to insult me and make me look stupid. Bravo. My dad actually did buy me a car when I was 17. It was a 1982 Chevy Citation that he paid $435 for. He bought it to drive while his vehicle being repaired. Then, he gave to me. The anecdote about fat bastards contributing to humanity is a fantastic non-sequitur. It’s as if I were arguing that fat people are subhumans who ought to be ground up and fed to the hungry, or at least that thoroughly suck at everything. Following that, he stands on the premise that people who live well have no right to complain about anything. This is clearly nonsense, though I understand not getting any sympathy from people who have bigger things to worry about. When Dennis Leary became rich and famous from being in movies, did he stop complaining about vegetarians, fruit-flavored beer, and not being allowed to smoke? Carlos speaks as if he knows a lot about me, but he doesn’t. He concludes that since I’m neither underfed in Africa nor overfed in America that I have no legitimate problems. The only assumption that I’ll make about him is that he has a fat significant other.

After that, we learn something interesting. We know that fat girls don’t like or want to accept that they’re weight makes them unattractive to men. It turns out that they also don’t like when they’re weight makes them attractive to men.

-I suggested a dating site for overweight people to my friend. She said she considered it, but found that most people messaged her just because being overweight was a turn on for them and they didn’t care about her personality.

-Yep. Been there, done that! It feels terrible to be objectified at any size. Being liked and being objectified and fetishized… not the same thing. 🙂 I would always rather be liked for being me. I’m fabulous that way 😉

Hot girls get attention “just for being hot” and they don’t seem to mind. I mean, it might be unwanted attention, but they certainly aren’t creeped out that their shape attracts such attention. This is where I decided that however fragile the fragile male ego might be, it’s got nothing on the ego of the fat girl. The angry men above are so valiant and heroic in their quest to protect the poor fat girl from truth and harsh words, like “fat.” If you want the truth, you can find it in this 2005 study(pdf). It is not written for the layperson, but it’s interesting.

From the summary:

…the centrally predictable fact from HurryDate events is that women’s desirability is dominated by their relative thinness, a finding consistent with data from personal ads (Lynn & Shurgot, 1984; Sitton & Blanchard, 1995). Such findings support both theoretical emphasis on men’s attention to physical attractiveness and lay intuitions that men care most deeply about women’s body size and shape.

They studied a large number of speed-dating sessions and found BMI to be the most significant factor in men’s preferences for women. They also found physical traits to dominate men’s desirability, which is somewhat inconsistent with my views, but I have some idea why. In the speed-dating events, participants had 3 minutes with each other opposite-sex participant, more than enough time to judge someone’s looks, but not nearly enough to judge their status. Yes, you can find out what someone does for a living in that time, but it’s not enough time to shit-test a man and find out if he’s a pussy.

Anyway, I like to share this ugly truth as much as I can so that larger women who are unsatisfied with the attention they get from men (or rather with the men they get attention from) will know the number one thing they can do to change that and that their sisters, girlfriends, gay guy friends, and heroic mangina nice guy friends are all full of shit.





We’re Different! Part III

18 02 2010

So, I just popped onto OkCupid and found an awesome example of the problems caused by failing to understand the differences between men and women when it comes to sexual attraction. I found this thread in the Help forum, which I think is actually for tech support.

This is the orignal poster:

Patman846: so i been on this site for almost a year now. i lost count on how many women i’ve messaged since then. most of them just don’t reply. it’s like they look at my picture & dont even do anything. be straight up with me: am i really that freakin bad looking that women just just can’t give a chance to? seriously i know that im no johnny depp, robert pattinson, brad pitt etc. but i dont think i look as horrible as “fat basterd” or “freddie kruger.” in fact i think i look real good since i lost 70 lbs. this past year. lol u should have seen the “big boy” pix i started with on this site. is there actually any women out there who care more about personality than looks? im sure there is. correct me if im wrong but aren’t the more “hot musular skinny” lookin guys more likely to cheat on their girl than an average would? i mean no wonder women are always gettin broken hearts. see that what happens when you care more bout the looks than personality

Oh, dear God. You’re a mess. Your shift keys don’t work, and you mix plural and singular. These make you appear stupid, which isn’t very attractive to women. Plus, you think your think looks matter that much. Quit thinking that women are like men. “More likely to cheat” means that a guy is desirable, and must be better. Women are not wired to worry so much about infidelity because it is not necessary for them to pass on their genes, and the man who has many women is likely to be more able to protect a family (higher physical dominance/status) than one who has none. This is not to say that they don’t care, but they are wired quite differently when it comes to sexual attraction.

Then this less hopeless guy popped in:

freedom999: I would wager that looks are as important to a girl as they are to a guy.

Natural selection my friend.

At least you can lose weight to make yourself more desirable. I’ll always be 5’5 and considered “too short” for many to even consider; even though being tall enough to look over fields of grass for predators isn’t a vital element of our survival anymore.

You’re all kinds of wrong. Looks are not nearly as important to a girl as they are to you. Looks really only come into play if you’re considered hot, which most guys aren’t, but a man does not need to be hot to be successful with women. OkCupid researched this and noticed that women on the site are far more picky about which men they say they find physically attractive than they are about who they message and who they respond to.

Being too short means more than that. A taller man is more likely to be able to protect his family from wild animals and other humans. In the modern world it still comes into play as taller men still make better providers than shorter men, but that doesn’t really matter whether this trait is still useful as it’s a genetic trait, and your genes (and her genes) are in effect whether they’re useful or not.

Having said that, women here get a lot more attention here than men and can afford to be selective. Having little else to go on, your looks and height are going to come into play. I avoid women who are taller than me in their tallest shoes. Creepy or not, I prefer smaller women, but I have noticed many lopsided couples out there. FWIW, I’ve been told I’m hot enough times to believe it, and I got very little attention online when I did try.

…except from fat girls.

Also of interest (emphasis added):

Desi83 (an attractive 26 year-old woman): It says something about your lack of confidence that you automatically assume that you aren’t getting dates because you think women don’t find you attractive. Be proud of who you are, especially since you lost 70 lbs! Like someone said earlier, lose the glasses. Give us a big cocky smile in the outfit that you feel the most handsome. Confidence is sexy:)

Sometimes, women have good advice.





Thinking of Giving Up

6 11 2009

No, not me. I already gave up a long time ago. This guy, jerryv87:

Women think they are queens. They know nothing about domestic stuff. Every single woman – does not know how to cook, don’t give me the time of the day when I might use some emotional support, lap it up when they need it, feel entitled to live off my money when we go out. My last live in gf could not even figure out how to vacuum the carpets once in a while.

I can bang any chick any time I want. They dig me. Relationships look like a raw deal for men. Its like taking care of a kid who thinks she belongs on a pedestal and I am her effin slave.

My uncle got cleaned out by his wife in the divorce. She cheated on him with a guy at work. Took the house, car, and has primary custody of the kid. He now rents an apartment, and is still paying child support. He owned the house before he even met that bi***.

The whole thing is run for the women. We are just slaves for them.

I always wanted a girl like my mom. She ran a business, but she always cooked for us. My dad did all other chores. They just don’t make them like that anymore.

Maybe I should just be a rich bachelor than a sucker like my uncle.

This kid is 22 and that is how he started a thread on the OkCupid forums. He also posted a poll asking if the modern American woman is even worth it. I said ‘no’.

He’s getting a lot of heat, more than I would’ve expected. In fact, a handful of people are strongly urging him to kill himself.

An overweight 39 year-old woman said this:

…unless you’re a total, absolute moron (which is eminently possible, mind you — this is the internet), you’re already aware that there tons of healthy, well-adjusted women interested in being a true partner in a relationship, and what you really need to learn is how to attract those types of women.

It’s very likely that Jerry picks crappy girls to spend his time with, but I can hardly think of any women I’d describe as well-adjusted. Apparently, I’m a total, absolute moron. I think what she’s really saying is that there are tons of desperate older fat women who will put forth a lot more effort than the spoiled brats Jerry goes after.

Jerry responds to the heat by calling the males manginas, and I think the term applies.

A girl advises him to off himself and a guy jumps in to share this sentiment.

After that it gets boring. I don’t know why I’m sharing this, exactly. I think I’m going to go deep into the writings of F. Roger Devlin. The man is brilliant.





Plenty of Fish

1 09 2009

Mark said:

I work with Plentyoffish.com, their competitor. Perhaps you could share your opinion on that site as well.

Sure. That site sucks. I actually have a profile there that I made years ago. It’s very out-dated. I don’t know how to delete it. The look and feel of the site is just horrible. All thumbnails are uncropped squares, and whatever algorithm re-sizes them does a horrible job, so everyone looks like they’re fat and have bad skin. That’s not to say they aren’t fat and don’t have bad skin, but you have to go to their profile to find out. Even then, as I seem to remember, the pictures are limited to a rather small resolution so you don’t get a very good look anyway. A friend of mine met the least impressive girl I’ve ever seen him with on that site. I don’t really know how though. I can’t find anything there, including the quit button.

Oh wait, I seem to have found it. My profile is deleted. Cool.

The forums don’t look so bad, though.





Why do most men not want to date a full figured woman?

22 08 2009

Lately, I’ve seen several threads on OKCupid’s forums asking why fat girls get little attention from guys. In each case, the original poster seems delusional about what’s going on and is looking for others to help them maintain their illusions.

In a thread titled “Why do most men not want to date a full figured woman?“, hornz102485 writes:

Why is it that men seem to be turned off when the term “full figured” is brought up? I am not lazy or a slob and yet when men see me they assume I am since I am overweight. I have tried countless diets and exercise to lose some weight, but nothing seems to help. I don’t need anyone commenting and being rude. I just want to know why men look and turn away. I am attractive and have alot to offer.

First, full-figured is a euphemism for fat and if men are turned off by the term, it’s because they know what it really means. Men are not turned on or off by words. Most of us are attracted to women and for many, that just doesn’t include fat women. We really don’t give a shit about why you’re fat or how hard you’ve tried not to be. It doesn’t matter. What matters is whether or not your appearance gives us wood. When Hornz says she doesn’t want anyone being rude, she means that she doesn’t want anyone being honest. Her insisting that she’s attractive certainly does not make it so.

If you look at her profile, you’ll see that in addition to looking somewhat like an ogre, this young woman has 1 kid, makes less than $30,000/year, dreams of meeting her prince, and can’t quite count to six.

iamjareth responds:

According to the poll in the other thread, most men DO prefer full-figured women. And so far on this one as well. Maybe they just won’t admit it. Or maybe as others have noted, it’s something else. Regardless of the “imperfection” in a man or woman, the imperfection is rarely the problem so much as having a hang up about it.

If any poll shows men preferring full-figured women, I guarantee most of the respondents were imagining actual full-figured women like Marylin Monroe or Laetitia Casta, not big tubs of goo. Either that or they’re full of shit. Then he has to lie to her about people (as if attraction works the same for men and women) having hang-ups. “No ma’am, it’s not that your body repulses me. It’s just that I have a hang-up about repulsive bodies.” Whatever.

geekadmirer says:

There are men who prefer big women to thinner women so you don’t have to worry.

Is this a joke? Yes, there are chubby-chasers out there, but not nearly in sufficient numbers to satisfy the massive hordes of massive women in existence today.

After my honest response to the thread, Hornz came back with this:

Wow, some very rude ignorant a**holes out there. I don’t care how you view me. I can only be me. However, I don’t look at a big guy and get grossed out, nor do I look at a thin man like that. I don’t think that men are ugly just cuz they are heavy. I guess there are just some really shallow people out there.

What is this tit-for-tat thing she does here? You’re not grossed out by fat guys, therefore it’s a character flaw on my part if I’m grossed out by you? I get annoyed at people who ask questions only to lash out when people actually try to answer them.

AbApt24 chimes in making excuses for not digging chubby chicks:

Why is being chubby or obese unattractive? Because the impression is you don’t take care of yourself, and no matter what you say you can’t convince us otherwise. I mean it works both ways, girls don’t like fat guys either.

No, being chubby or obese is unattractive because it’s unattractive, the same way being a tree is unattractive to humans. It may work both ways to some extent, but don’t pretend it’s the same.

The thread then turns full retard with a post by myrddwn, a man in a polyamorous relationship with a rather large woman:

Most people, men included, can not overcome their cultural programing.  Right now, our society views skinny as attractive.  Look around at the intelligence of the people bashing fatties here, and you can plainly see that its the dumb, ignorant hicks that want skinny bitches.  They dont know any better.  They also want big trucks, big screen TV’s, the latest cell phone, because advertisers tell them to want that stuff, and think if they have these things, they will be cool, or happy, or something. So what if most men dont want you, chances are, you dont want them.  Superficial ‘tards anyway.

Does anything need to be said?

Moving on…

In “Why do average-full figured women get overlooked???“, sabrinalee2010 writes:

I am not overly “full figured” but I have my curves and I love them, I am a proud size 14, which if you do your research is the average healthy size for a female in the united states…I am healthy, I jog and I eat right….but what [floors] me is the guys today overlooking a size 14 or 16 woman for a girl that is a 00…why??? It’s not like a persons size makes them more or less capable of loving you. I think people today get too focused on what a girl looks like in a bikini and what the public sees as “beautiful” when a beautiful person should be someone that loves themselves and others….

First off, full-figured is a euphamism for fat, although this girl really isn’t all that big. Here again she’s looking to blame what men are attracted to on society. That, and there’s this constant need for these bigger girls to pretend that the only alternative to their heft is 5-year-meth-addict skinny. Fat women, you’re problem is not that you aren’t shaped like a runway model; it’s that you are shaped like a panda bear. There are a lot of women who resemble neither and plenty of men who find them attractive.

The responses start out fun and light-hearted until Tru24m jumps in with:

The disrespect to larger women stems from the insecure little boys who are so self concious about themselves that they don’t dare admit that they find anyone attractive who isn’t the socially accepted size zero.  For whatever reason twiggy women are held on some crazy undeserved pedistal, even when they’re actually ugly as sin.  I fail to see how ribs and pencil sharp hip bones poking out at unnatural angles is sexy, but society says it is, therefore it has to be.

Did someone ask about respect? No, the original question is about guys picking thin girls over thick girls for mating purposes. Tru24m, if you’re attracted to women that other men avoid, there’s absolutely nothing to be upset about. Clearly, you should be happy about this.





OKStupid

10 08 2009

OKCupid is a free dating website where I’ve had a profile for years. I quit trying to meet women on the internet a while ago, but the site is still fun for people who aren’t looking, which can be rather frustrating to the people who are, but oh well. Anyway, they have forums, and in these forums people bitch and moan about not being able to find what they want. There’s a lot of shit you see over and over again. These people are frequently immune to good advice and only want others to jump in and tell them what they want to hear to make them feel better about themselves. On top of this, a great deal of the advice people give is stupid and wrong. Fat girls ask why they get no attention and people, including dudes, reply that some girls don’t like fat girls, but there are plenty who do or some other such nonsense. Once in a while, people say something brilliant.

In a thread asking if women are really attracted to men who make them laugh, Sasy1 writes:

Hell Yeah we find funny attractive…its the first thing we notice! Right after your face, your ass and your ring finger, oh and don’t forget the whole “got a job” thing! Seriously tho… charisma is way more imprortant than making me laugh. If you can make me feel more sexy and desirable with one look you will get a lot farther than cracking jokes. That is one of the fastest ways to get in to the “friend” catagory. Dont get me wrong I’m not saying you have to be Don Juan or a dick to pick up women. We do like funny, most of us just like it when you are in to us and can have a great time with out the stand up act.

Perfect! That’s how women work, though they don’t all realize it.

OKCupid shall provide me with tons of material for this blog