I don’t exactly consider myself a member of this community, but I’ve watched it for a while and learned a few things. The modern community was born on the internet. I wasn’t there, and I don’t know who really started it, but I believe it began on a usenet newsgroup. Usenet, since nobody seems know this, is an older internet protocol for message boards with all the technical sophistication of e-mail. I’ve read some of the old posts that are archived at fastseduction.com, and they seemed to consist guys trying different things to improve their success with women and sharing the results. A lot of learning took place. Some of the guys that are making lots of money on seminars and “bootcamps” today started there.
I think the seriousness with which some guys take this stuff and the complexity of their jargon is a bit silly, and it’s crazy that people spend hundreds and even thousands of dollars on books, DVD’s, seminars, and one-on-one training. However, I understand how frustrating and devastating the world can be for a man who has little to no success with women, and I know that some dudes have a bit more disposable income than I do. I know someone who once spent over a grand on a pre-internet “computer dating service” and had very limited success. George Sodini recently went on a homicidal rampage where he targeted only women after 19 years without sex. I’ve seen some pretty serious frustration in people I know. Sexless life for a man with hormones is basically a fate worse than death, so I suppose I can understand why some dudes might shell out a few bucks to remedy the situation. Still, I think it’s pretty nuts when tons of good information is available on the web for free.
The first problem with the community is that it exists outside the paradigm of equality of the sexes. The claims of feminism are rejected, even laughed at. It doesn’t say that men are better than women, but it does say, very loudly, that we are different, a lot different. This is important because it’s something that modern males don’t really seem to understand. Sure, they may have noticed that girls cry more and like the color pink more than them, but many of the most important differences are not nearly as apparent. Often, a guy with unsatisfactory success with women will blame his looks, foolishly thinking that looks are as important to women as they are to men. Without evidence to the contrary, a guy automatically assumes that the female mind works like his own. Young men are not learning this from their parents or teachers, nor do most of them learn it on their own, so the community serves a noble purpose. We are different and for acknowledging that, the community is branded as sexist.
The other problem is that it’s all about manipulating the pants off of girls through dishonest trickery. It really isn’t. Okay, there are “tricks” and there are certain bullshit games that can be played, but this is not a necessary component. A man can have game without lying or resorting to any sort of dirty tricks. It’s not necessarily about getting laid right now either. It’s about being attractive to women. I’ve never actually seen VH1’s pick-up artist, but I have seen a trailer. If you’ve seen the losers on that show, you should understand what they’re looking for.
A little while ago, in a thread called “How to hit on girls” I posted a hidden camera video of a PUA meeting a girl on the sidewalk during the day. They were making out within 10 minutes. This sparked some hostility toward me and the PUA community.
geek_grrl said:
The PUA thing is all about manipulating very young women with low self-esteem or boulders rolling around in their skulls into sex. They advise the “neg,” a backhanded compliment (insult) to “take her off her pedestal.” And not-so-subtle techniques like touching a woman’s arm, if she withdraws, ignore her. If she responds positively, give her more attention. Seriously, all that’s missing is snausages and a whistle.
No. It’s not about young women. It’s about attractive women, which often happen to be rather young but not necessarily. Low self-esteem is not required at all. Game works on all women. Sure, there are a lot of tricks and things that will work better on the younger ones, but the basic core is universal. The infamous neg is how a guy can get a girl to question her relative value. The goal is to bring her down to his level, so it’s really only useful on those who see themselves as being above the crowd of guys hit on them. It’s not about making her feel bad, and if he does that, he did it wrong.
And PUA’s basic teaching boils down to treating women as if they’re magical beasts guarding the kingdom of pussy. Defeat the beast, get the pussy.
Actually, this is the way guys naturally see things. PUA’s actually try to deprogram this thinking.
PUA’s “quality women” are young (early twenties), heart-achingly beautiful (they call them a 9+), have self-esteem issues, and are devastatingly naive. It’s a very specific group of women.
I see. For eons, men and boys have rated girls on the 1-10 scale. The most impressive thing a PUA can do in front of a young beta student is approach a 9 or 10 and have success. Looks are the primary thing that attract males to females, but I would not judge someone as a “quality woman” based only on looks. I can’t speak with authority on how that term is used within the community, but quality implies relationship material, which requires a lot more than looks.
Now by all means, if that is what you want, go forth and get it. I bear you no ill will, and don’t think you’re a jerk for knowing the sort of woman you want and going for it.
What bugs me about this is that you just say things like “good with women” as if we’re all the same exact thing, and not really people, but magical creatures who have to be unlocked with a magical key. PUA works with some women. It doesn’t work with all women. Same goes for that awful BS “The Rules” which is all about manipulating men (they refer to dating profiles as their “lobster traps” and completely dehumanize men in the same way. Um, “yay equality?”) It only works on a specific type of man, not all. The Rules treats men as magical beasts guarding the kingdom of the Amex platinum card.
One of the first things I understand about human females is how different they are from one another. However, the core, pick-up artistry is universal. If you
Rules Girls and PUA guys should get together and make lots of manipulative, sexist children. That would be awesome.
If recognizing the differences between the sexes is sexist, that would, in fact, be awesome. We should all be a bit more sexist.
Be honest, PUA stands for Pick Up Artist. It’s not Long-term Relationship Artist. Women are people, just as diverse in what they want and who they are as men.
Women are more diverse than men in almost every area. The art is useful and even necessary for relationships, particularly with American women. A man needs to be a certain way to get a girl and he needs to keep being that way to keep her. I don’t like that things are this way, but they are.
I just wish you’d stop referring to your “quality women” as women in general. That’s the part that makes you sound like jerks for painting us all with the same brush.
Who me? When I refer to women in general, I’m talking about women in general.
I’ll have more on this topic later.
Unfrozen Caveman 
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